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Well at first you were just dropping hints, like posting a few pages, expecting other people to follow the clues, keep digging, digging, digging, digesting...as you've already done. I was very curious, but I've got limited energy. Remember my question about 1984? I was ready to start reading it again, just on your say-so, but I asked for a bit of clarification before I started, just to make sure I wasn't wasting my time. I think it would work better if you draw your conclusions, share them with people, and share URLs and other evidence that you used to develop your conclusions.

The end result to you might be fascinating enough to keep you digging. For other people, it might not be. Just present it all and if they're interested they can follow the same leads you did and confirm or deny your conclusions.

It's like if you say, "Diamonds are out there! Just go find 'em". Yeah, great, I already knew vast wealth is there for the taking, but there are a trillion first steps. Which is the first one? Throw us a bone! You've done that, and I think we've gotten to the bottom of the whole story. It only took a day or so, and not much of my time, so I'm thankful. Meanwhile there are some new leads. Not specifically to 9/11 conspiracy, but I like this UFO stuff, the David Wilcock stuff. I want to dig deeper there when I've got time and see what elese he has to share. Will I start believing his whole story? I doubt it, but I don't know....

For fun I was imagining what the Illuminati's purpose might have been. Suppose the 9/11 was a long term strategy, started in the mid to late 1990's. They could put the "clues" on the currency. They could have recruited Islamic Fundamentalists and built a team capable of pulling off 9/11. The 80 members that took over the planes could have believed they were working for "Al Quieda (spelling?)". But were they? The CIA does this all the time. With money and a bit of sleight of hand you can get people to believe they are working against their enemies, when in fact you're their enemy. It's a classic espionage case, a way of recruiting spies. You can use people's anger against them to trick them into helping the very people they despise. It's because people can't verify everything. Some stuff has to be taken on faith.

Suppose you find yourself irrisistably hating Bush and all this administration stands for. Then someone approaches you and says, "A bunch of us have been watching you. You're a smart fellow. You're not dumb like these sheep. I'm part of a group that is trying to resist the fall of US into tyranny. We hate this SOB Bush just like you do. But we're going to defeat them! We need more people like you to join our cause. We've got plenty of money, here's some. We need you to be a soldier. You'll be contacted with further instructions later..." Do you see? They could present a realistic secret society and you might buy into it. Money is not their limiting factor, money they have in abundance. What I'm describing, I think, first came to my mind when I was reading "The Illuminatus" trilogy. The author describes this very tactic.

So what would the Illuminati's purpose have been? That's even assuming it was the Illuminati. It could have been Shelby's Cabal. Maybe they're one and the same. Whatever. What was their purpose in putting it on the bills? Can you see how after 9/11, that could be a very, very poweful recruiting mechanism? Suppose the Illuminati wants to demonstrate their power. A person can simply claim to be part of the Illuminati, show people pictures of the 9/11 collapse, and show the "animation" on the bills when folded just right. The person would revere them as either gods or devils. But they might be convinced enough to join their secret society as a soldier. People want to be on the "winning" side.

A question not asked is who set up that camera that so perfectly recorded the twin towers collapse from just the right angle to match the animation on the bills? Do you see? The bills came out 1996. The camera was placed on 9/11, in just the right place. This thing had to be choreographed just as accurately as any Michael Jackson video.

Don't work for the Cabal or the Illuminati, don't work against them. Work for yourself. The opposite of love is not hate. It's indifference. Do you see? You rob them of their power when you yourself ignore them. If you try to fight them you give them power over you. They're just a distraction anyway. NOTE: This last paragraph is just my opinion. I don't have all the answers. At some point a problem is just too big to fight. Maybe then all you can do is ride it out.

Suppose the Cabal or The Illuminati really wants to expand their ranks, but they don't want sheep. They want people that can think for themselves, that are very smart and creative, and don't believe everything they've been spoon fed. For example I can imagine people reading Shelby's posts, and eventually get into the habit of just going, "Ditto! Exactly my thoughts." They understand his arguments, but gradually turn off their own critical thinking. This is how cults operate. You pass your thinking off onto someone else. Suppose 99.99% of humanity inescapably falls into this trap? They're sheep. They are useless for bigger projects. They're not really leaders. They're ingrained followers. Suppose you're a leader, one of the .01% of people, and you're lonely. It's lonely at the top. But you don't want to be surrounded by sheep. You want more leaders, so you can commiserate. Share your trials and tribulations. So life itself is a filtering process. You want to find others like yourself, the .01% that are really enlightened, and hang out with them. I had thought perhaps Shelby was in the Cabal, because his statements, on the face of them, seemed plausable. But when you dig deeper they fall apart, and he's incapable of defending them. So is this a test? Have I passed? By not swallowing his stuff hook, line and sinker?

You might even come to the conclusion that I'm part of the Cabal, or the Illuminati. Maybe I'm just playing games with this forum. Ever think of that? I come in here and stir up the pot, dance around, totally wipe out the conventions. Anyone really "getting" all I've posted here would conclude I've destroyed all the credibility of this whole money making scheme. I explained exactly how Shelby and Jason amassed their fortunes -- and they don't even try to deny it! I explain their erroneous thinking about wealth and gold and what it all means...and they can't refute it. To me this is all a hilarous exercise in pure thought. It's fun. It's better than Cats.

-Dave

In "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman" he talks about his own experience with Lucid Dreaming. That book is a must read. I love Feynman. My father hates him, despises him with all his being. Just a little aside there.

I've only occasionally managed to be aware that I'm dreaming. Usually I wake up. I don't have the patience to work at it. There have been dreams where I didn't like where it was going, I didn't want to deal with the situation. And I just WONK pulled myself out of the dream and woke up. Game over!

-Dave

Yeah, Feynman's quite a character but I have to admit I've never got round to reading any of his books. Can you recommend the best one for me to pick up?

The top of the bunch are "Surely You're Joking..." and "What do you care what other people think?" Almost all of the rest is rehash. "Surely..." is the best.

-Dave

Thanks for the tip. I have been wondering where to start anew on this subject. I miss my childhood dreaming experiences.

Dave, in response to post #61 you're absolutely right to be suspicious of me and my motives, after all you've never met me and I'm ranting on like some goddam madman! Let's take a break from this for a few days 'cos I think both of us need to ponder. I'm at work this week and you have machine intelligence to work on. Interesting times.

Tomorrow I intend to buy Feynman's book, it sounds fascinating.

Cheers,
db

Actually, I'm signing off this forum for good. I profusely apologise if I've inadvertantly frightened anyone or caused alarm, no harm was ever meant or intended.

Dave you have everything you need. Trust me when I say I have laid bare my soul to you, so have faith and good luck!

Cheers,
db

Oh, come on, dizzib. No reason to leave that I see. Stick around.

Dizzib,

I'm not suspicious of you at all! I don't really believe in the Cabal or the Illuminati, and if they do exist I doubt if they mess around internet forums. It's like they are on some different plane, different circles. I think you've just woken up to the deceipt that is rampant in modern society. It's a tough pill to swallow. But a lot of what's new to you is old hat to other people. I think I only really came to grips with the full level of corruption within the past few months. I very much liked Jason's thesis on biblical capitalism, J+S's thesis about how usury gives rise to economic woes.

I like your posts, I like discussing stuff with you. If you've got a mind open enough to realize 9/11 could be a conspiracy, you're open minded enough for lots of other things. If you want to take a break, that's fine, but come back soon!

Me, I find myself getting addicted to these discussions. Here it's Sunday and I'm going back and forth from family stuff to my computer. The kids just got their first pets. A couple rats. Actually they're very cute! One keeps biting me, hard enough to draw blood, when I try to pick it up. It's still a little nervous about the transition I guess.

-Dave